Discussion

Chris-

Sorry it took a while to get back to you. I believe that if you and I
sat down to discuss these things, we would be up all night and then we
probably wouldn't finish. I appreciate your zeal. Again, I believe
that Congress needs 'impeaching', not President Bush for handing over
their power to the Executive. They are the ones who are anointing a
king. Term limits? We already have them, they are voted in or out by
us. Guess who then gets the blame? We the people who continue to send
these folks back. We need impeaching for not doing our duty.

Anyway, feel free to use my note (realizing it isn't edited or that
great) in its entirety if you want somewhere. I am not posting any of
these sorts of things on my web site, it seems too big anyway. Thanks
again.

Travis Kidd, Jr., M.D.

Chris wrote first:

>Hello,
>My name is Christian Kunig (German by birth)

>I can not remember exactly how I found this place, but I landed on that
>excellent article about fear. I have discovered this about fear: it is
>largely imaginary. http://www.michaelmoore.com/ I have discovered this about
>truth: Watching the news, I noticed that the "accepted" news channel I was
>watching (FOX or NBC; not sure) only played a small segment of Michael's
>acceptance speech. Michael was saying "Shame on you, Mr. Bush! Shame on
>you!" and the patriots were already booing and hissing, giving the scene the
>appearance of chaos and portraying Michael as a luntic. I wonder why the
>"accepted" media edited the scene in that way? Please go back and read what
>Michael actually said.

>I believe the political section needs additional information. I am all about
>truth and additional information nowadays. I have spoken with jehova's
>witness' and I commend you for your belief that we DO need to be involved
>with politics.

>This next will likely sound very radical, but keep in mind I have sought
>hard and read much. Here we go; the only way I currently see of even
>remotely changing the machine we call our government is to vote for a
>proceeding that is already in place at http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ to
>impeach four of our top leaders, who seem to be misbehaving. I leaped for
>the vote button and am ashamed to say, have only donated $40 so far. That
>may change. There is a link http://www.votetoimpeach.org/articles_rc.htm on
>that page to a document written by Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark
>to impeach the following leaders:
>______________________________
>
>George Bush, who seems to have below normal intellignce, was not duly
>elected. By the time the vote was tallied correctly, showing that Al Gore
>had won the popular AND electoral vote, it was too late. Al Gore had already
>resigned and George Bush was already president. Prior to that, George Bush
>had reportedly cheated and scraped his way through flight school, gone AWOL,
>and hidden at his father's house for a year. He has surrounded himself with
>these people:
>
>Donald Rumsfeld who just appears and acts evil in my view and that's just
>hearsay, but it's true, nevertheless.
>
>Ari Fleischer, who speaks what Geeorge Bush wants heard (right or wrong;
>good or bad)
>
>Dick Cheney, who has heart attacks, but about whom little else is known.
>_______________________________
>
>I believe this action needs to take place to "shake up the system", if not
>more, for the following reasons:
>
>To keep and even get back international opinion and respect. Impeachment
>will do even more good for World opinion of the US than voting these
>politicians out next term.
>
>To save this country economically. This administration has totally
>squandered the surplus that the previous administration had created. I
>believe this nation is stretched to the limit and very near bankruptcy
>eonomically.
>
>To ultimately take care of the economically repressed Americans working 40
>or more hours a week doing something they hate, at near minimum wage as a
>result of the corporate/government greed. To eliminate the fear of the
>dollar.
>
>To save the World! This administration seems to have a "Panic Room"
>mentallity of taking over or at least dominating the entire World. This is
>not acceptable in my view, especially in light of the above statement that I
>believe bankruptcy is impending for this county. I believe the World will
>work out the economics if this country lets it.
>
>Thanks for listening! Take a rest and please stop by here:
>http://www.southknoxbubba.net/skblog/godblog2.php
>I didn't create it, but I have contributed and hope to contribute more.
>
>------ Cut Here --------
>
>You have my permission to do any good you can think of with the above text
>(including deleting the "Cut Here" line.) In fact, PLEASE use it!
>Disseminate widely and quickly, before it's too late! Thank You again.
>
> flat.black@verizon.net
>
>*********
>Then Travis Kidd, Jr., M.D wrote:
>
>Christian-
>
>I appreciate your note and your comments were quite interesting, some I
>would agree with and others I don't. Fear is a concept in one's mind yet if
>you imply it is imaginary, then it is unfounded, similar to paranoia. If it
>is a reasonable fear of impending danger, then it is not imaginary and it
>gives one the opportunity to remove one's self from this dangerous situation
>or else suffer the consequences. The fear of God falls into this category
>as was cleverly alluded to at the southknoxbubba... web site when quoting
>Nietsche claiming God is dead and reply- the joke's on you. If only it were
>funny, but it is true. It is to our own peril if we ignore the fear of God
>and not to plan for the next life.
>
>As far as impeachment goes, we are at great disagreement here. First, Mr.
>Bush was elected president appropriately, as the many recounts have shown.
>The founding fathers of our nation were godly men who did not want to set up
>a pure 'democracy' but a republic. Over the years many of their plans have
>been diluted but still the popular vote does not determine who is president,
>nor should it by itself. The founders saw failures of 'democracy' in France
>with many very bloody revolutions and realized that a pure majority rule
>will lead to what some of them classified as 'mob rule', trying to get the
>most for themselves. As a republic, we were set up to be under the 'rule of
>law' based on God's law. This is immutable and should be straight forward.
>If we continued in this course, the changes in government, the obtrusive
>nature of government on the people would develop very slowly, as it has done
>over the years. Should President Bush be impeached? I do not think so. I
>do believe that the war should and must have been approved by Congress (but
>wasn't), according to the Constitution (as Howard Phillips would have done)
>but was not done correctly. Therefore the Congress holds the greater error
>by neglecting their part in the checks and balances, leading to greater
>power for the Executive branch.
>
>Anyway, I do appreciate your note and kind comments. We must each seek
>Christ for salvation. The fear of God will awaken us to this truth. May
>God Bless you on this journey.
>
>Travis Kidd, Jr., M.D.
>
>*********
>Then Chris wrote:
>
>Thank you for your reply!
>
>I was referring to fear of the Corporate/Government/Bank/Military machine
>that exists in the US. It was my intention to start by showing what Michael
>Moore actually said while pointing out that he had nothing to fear. As he
>says, (http://www.michaelmoore.com/), he has not been struck down and his
>works are prospering. I felt it necessary to point that out before putting
>forth such a "radical" concept as impeaching "leaders".
>
>On a side note, I must highly commend Michael Moore. I have 2 or 3 thousand
>dollars in the bank and try not to think about it. It's there in case
>someone worthy needs it. That a man of Michael Moore's "stature", read [lots
>of money,] has as much of an understanding of God as he does is very
>refreshing to me!
>
>My fear of God stems from the realization that, for good or bad, I am God's
>instrument. My fear is that one little mistake on my part can cause great
>harm or prevent great good. For example, I had to change the Ashcroft line
>in my original writing to the Cheney line it is now because it was
>inaccurate. For that, you have my sincerest appologies. I also had Fleischer
>spelled wrong and had to fix a typo; again, I appologise.
>
>I agree that our founding fathers were well-meaning, Godly men. Their
>greatest achievment was probably the US constitution. It is very
>thoughtfully written. Above all, I cheer the fore-fathers for having the
>wisdom of including a means for impeachment in case of emergency. We used
>that proceeding on the previous president. That (should/does) bring(s) many
>thoughts to mind.
>
>Why would a retired US Attorney General bother to draw up a document of
>impeachment, I ask? His job description calls for him to interpret the
>constitution and draw conclusions. He's retired; it's doubtful he has any
>hidden agendas as far as politics are concerned. Is it possible that Former
>U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark is an instrument of God? If so, let him
>do his work! He's good at it. Then, why would anyone go to the trouble of
>putting together http://www.impeachbushisyourbusiness.com//? Is it possible that there
>are individuals who, without ever having met them, hate |Bush, Rumsfeld,
>Cheney, and Fleischer| enough to go to such great lengths?
>
>You gave me this:
>
>"I do believe that the war should and must have been approved by Congress
>(but wasn't), according to the Constitution (as Howard Phillips would have
>done) but was not done correctly. Therefore the Congress holds the greater
>error by neglecting their part in the checks and balances, leading to
>greater power for the Executive branch."
>
>The above is exactly why an impeachment proceeding was provided for, to stop
>such a shift in power! High school is starting to make sense to me again!
>The Executive currently has too much power.
>
>Now that you hopefully know me better, let me ask you, even if you still
>disagree, why this shouldn't at least be posted? I think you are very
>well-meaning. I know how well-meaning I am. I believe that when two
>well-meaning individuals have an intelligent discussion, the result is very
>worthy. As I mentioned, the political section is outdated, in my opinion.
>Shouldn't this discourse at least be put there so others can read it and
>decide?
>
>May I at least have your permission to post it if I can find an appropriate
>place? In other words, the rights to the unaltered text you typed?
>
>Thanks for even bothering to read all this!
>-Chris
>
>Sources:
>
>http://www.truthout.org/ http://www.unknownnews.net/
>http://www.fromthewilderness.com/ http://www.takebackthemedia.com/
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/ http://www.avoiceforfreedom.com/
>http://home.bluemarble.net/~mattsson/