I once had a discussion with a religious man via e-mail. Here it is:
Chris in orange
Travis in light blue
Sorry it took a while to get back to you. I believe that
if you and I
sat down to discuss these things, we would be up all night and then we
probably wouldn't finish.
I appreciate your zeal. Again, I believe
that Congress needs 'impeaching', not President Bush for handing over
power to the Executive. They are the ones who are anointing a
king. Term limits? We already have them,
they are voted in or out by
us. Guess who then gets the blame? We the people who continue to send
folks back. We need impeaching for not doing our duty.
Anyway, feel free to use my note (realizing it
isn't edited or that
great) in its entirety if you want somewhere. I am not posting any of
these sorts of
things on my web site, it seems too big anyway. Thanks
Travis Kidd, Jr., M.D.
Chris wrote first:>Hello,
>My name is Christian Kunig (German by birth)
can not remember exactly how I found this place, but I landed on that
>excellent article about fear. I have discovered
this about fear: it is
>largely imaginary. http://www.michaelmoore.com/ I have discovered this about
>truth: Watching the news, I noticed that the "accepted" news channel
>watching (FOX or NBC; not sure) only played a small segment of Michael's
>acceptance speech. Michael was
saying "Shame on you, Mr. Bush! Shame on
>you!" and the patriots were already booing and hissing, giving the scene the
of chaos and portraying Michael as a luntic. I wonder why the
>"accepted" media edited the scene in that way? Please
go back and read what
>Michael actually said.
>I believe the political section needs additional information.
I am all about
>truth and additional information nowadays. I have spoken with jehova's
>witness' and I commend
you for your belief that we DO need to be involved
>This next will likely sound very radical,
but keep in mind I have sought
>hard and read much. Here we go; the only way I currently see of even
changing the machine we call our government is to vote for a
>proceeding that is already in place at http://www.votetoimpeach.org/ to
>impeach four of our top leaders, who seem to be misbehaving. I leaped for
>the vote button
and am ashamed to say, have only donated $40 so far. That
>may change. There is a link http://www.votetoimpeach.org/articles_rc.htm on
>that page to a document written by Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark
the following leaders:
>George Bush, who seems to have below normal intellignce,
was not duly
>elected. By the time the vote was tallied correctly, showing that Al Gore
>had won the popular AND
electoral vote, it was too late. Al Gore had already
>resigned and George Bush was already president. Prior to that,
>had reportedly cheated and scraped his way through flight school, gone AWOL,
>and hidden at his father's
house for a year. He has surrounded himself with
>Donald Rumsfeld who just appears and
acts evil in my view and that's just
>hearsay, but it's true, nevertheless.
>Ari Fleischer, who speaks
what Geeorge Bush wants heard (right or wrong;
>good or bad)
>Dick Cheney, who has heart attacks, but
about whom little else is known.
>I believe this action needs to take
place to "shake up the system", if not
>more, for the following reasons:
>To keep and even get back international
opinion and respect. Impeachment
>will do even more good for World opinion of the US than voting these
out next term.
>To save this country economically. This administration has totally
>squandered the surplus
that the previous administration had created. I
>believe this nation is stretched to the limit and very near bankruptcy
ultimately take care of the economically repressed Americans working 40
>or more hours a week doing something they hate,
at near minimum wage as a
>result of the corporate/government greed. To eliminate the fear of the
save the World! This administration seems to have a "Panic Room"
>mentallity of taking over or at least dominating the
entire World. This is
>not acceptable in my view, especially in light of the above statement that I
is impending for this county. I believe the World will
>work out the economics if this country lets it.
for listening! Take a rest and please stop by here:
create it, but I have contributed and hope to contribute more.
>------ Cut Here --------
have my permission to do any good you can think of with the above text
>(including deleting the "Cut Here" line.) In
fact, PLEASE use it!
>Disseminate widely and quickly, before it's too late! Thank You again.
>Then Travis Kidd, Jr., M.D wrote:
appreciate your note and your comments were quite interesting, some I
>would agree with and others I don't. Fear
is a concept in one's mind yet if
>you imply it is imaginary, then it is unfounded, similar to paranoia. If it
a reasonable fear of impending danger, then it is not imaginary and it
>gives one the opportunity to remove one's self
from this dangerous situation
>or else suffer the consequences. The fear of God falls into this category
was cleverly alluded to at the southknoxbubba... web site when quoting
>Nietsche claiming God is dead and reply- the
joke's on you. If only it were
>funny, but it is true. It is to our own peril if we ignore the fear of God
not to plan for the next life.
>As far as impeachment goes, we are at great disagreement here. First,
>Bush was elected president appropriately, as the many recounts have shown.
>The founding fathers of our nation
were godly men who did not want to set up
>a pure 'democracy' but a republic. Over the years many of their plans
>been diluted but still the popular vote does not determine who is president,
>nor should it by itself.
The founders saw failures of 'democracy' in France
>with many very bloody revolutions and realized that a pure majority
>will lead to what some of them classified as 'mob rule', trying to get the
>most for themselves. As
a republic, we were set up to be under the 'rule of
>law' based on God's law. This is immutable and should be
>If we continued in this course, the changes in government, the obtrusive
>nature of government
on the people would develop very slowly, as it has done
>over the years. Should President Bush be impeached?
I do not think so. I
>do believe that the war should and must have been approved by Congress (but
to the Constitution (as Howard Phillips would have done)
>but was not done correctly. Therefore the Congress
holds the greater error
>by neglecting their part in the checks and balances, leading to greater
>power for the
>Anyway, I do appreciate your note and kind comments. We must each seek
for salvation. The fear of God will awaken us to this truth. May
>God Bless you on this journey.
Kidd, Jr., M.D.
>Then Chris wrote:
>Thank you for
>I was referring to fear of the Corporate/Government/Bank/Military machine
>that exists in
the US. It was my intention to start by showing what Michael
>Moore actually said while pointing out that he had nothing
to fear. As he
>says, (http://www.michaelmoore.com/), he has not been struck down and his
>works are prospering. I felt it necessary to point that
out before putting
>forth such a "radical" concept as impeaching "leaders".
>On a side note, I must highly
commend Michael Moore. I have 2 or 3 thousand
>dollars in the bank and try not to think about it. It's there in case
worthy needs it. That a man of Michael Moore's "stature", read [lots
>of money,] has as much of an understanding of
God as he does is very
>refreshing to me!
>My fear of God stems from the realization that, for good or
bad, I am God's
>instrument. My fear is that one little mistake on my part can cause great
>harm or prevent great
good. For example, I had to change the Ashcroft line
>in my original writing to the Cheney line it is now because it
>inaccurate. For that, you have my sincerest appologies. I also had Fleischer
>spelled wrong and had to fix
a typo; again, I appologise.
>I agree that our founding fathers were well-meaning, Godly men. Their
achievment was probably the US constitution. It is very
>thoughtfully written. Above all, I cheer the fore-fathers for
>wisdom of including a means for impeachment in case of emergency. We used
>that proceeding on the
previous president. That (should/does) bring(s) many
>thoughts to mind.
>Why would a retired US Attorney
General bother to draw up a document of
>impeachment, I ask? His job description calls for him to interpret the
and draw conclusions. He's retired; it's doubtful he has any
>hidden agendas as far as politics are concerned. Is it
possible that Former
>U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark is an instrument of God? If so, let him
work! He's good at it. Then, why would anyone go to the trouble of
>putting together http://www.impeachbushisyourbusiness.com//? Is it possible that there
>are individuals who, without ever having met them, hate |Bush, Rumsfeld,
and Fleischer| enough to go to such great lengths?
>You gave me this:
do believe that the war should and must have been approved by Congress
>(but wasn't), according to the Constitution
(as Howard Phillips would have
>done) but was not done correctly. Therefore the Congress holds the greater
by neglecting their part in the checks and balances, leading to
>greater power for the Executive branch."
>The above is exactly why an impeachment proceeding was provided for, to stop
>such a shift in power!
High school is starting to make sense to me again!
>The Executive currently has too much power.
you hopefully know me better, let me ask you, even if you still
>disagree, why this shouldn't at least be posted?
I think you are very
>well-meaning. I know how well-meaning I am. I believe that when two
have an intelligent discussion, the result is very
>worthy. As I mentioned, the political section is outdated, in my
>Shouldn't this discourse at least be put there so others can read it and
I at least have your permission to post it if I can find an appropriate
>place? In other words, the rights to the unaltered
text you typed?
>Thanks for even bothering to read all this!